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Author Topic: Subjective truth  (Read 597 times)

jesse

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Subjective truth
« on: September 26, 2018, 04:46:06 PM »
Hi,

Here is my question: When using the Belief Blasters how to identify a false belief from a subjective truth? Is it best to use a belief statement that is false which does not contain subjective truth?

One can be aware of a false or limiting belief which may feel subjectively true.  When I first used Belief Blasters some time back I may have been using it incorrectly. I was clearing specific beliefs around my phobia of tarantulas. Some of the beliefs I worked with were clearly false but had a subjective truth. Also sometimes a belief that was clearly false in the present when shifted to the past tense also had a subjective truth.  It seems it is important to clear the false belief that does not contain a subjective truth.
 
I am using an example of my phobia of spiders, specifically tarantulas, which I have already cleared. But it just as easily could apply to issues with dogs, public speaking, relationships, success, sex, money, self-worth [Insert Issue] etc.

To review, Belief Blasters is described as a tool that dismantles and erases such unwanted, troublesome, and limiting beliefs. In most cases with people, it seems these are caused by false beliefs created by inaccurate cognitive or emotional distortions. This cognitive distortion creates an irrational, exaggerated and inaccurate limiting belief. The thought is challenged and reframed. In traditional reframing— Just because you think it doesn’t make it true. Just because you believe a belief doesn’t make it true. Then one provides evidence to challenge and remove that negative belief and then create a new positive belief.

My example is a phobia. PSTEC often uses phobias in examples possibly because there is often a 1 to 1 causal relationship. An irrational fear (X) causes (Y ) reaction. When using the belief blasters on my tarantula phobia I found that I needed some clarification distinguishing the false belief from my own subjective truth. Now having said that, I have already cleared this phobia using the free and 2015 long CT’s and this information from PP secrets may be the reason:

“People can use the click tracks themselves with many things like negative past experiences or things like phobias because it is possible to simply remove the emotion by using the click tracks and leave it at that. Supposed you use the free click tracks or the EEF‘ S to clear a spider phobia. Because in the way most phobias are created in the first place. It’s almost a certainty, that click tracks would be all that’s needed.” (PP Secrets 21:20 audio instruction)

This was my experience. The CT’s were totally effective. I am no longer afraid of tarantulas. Although in many of the PSTEC instructions it is advised after removing the old negative belief it is often best to create a new positive belief. So even though my phobia has been cleared it seems a good idea to use BB, PSTEC positive, and PQT. Ultimately I am using this to understand how the to use the tools together. 

To review, the first step in BB is to identify if the negative belief is a simple belief or a complex belief. A complex belief is just two simple beliefs connected together in a sequence. An example is provided “ I can’t be successful (belief 1) because I am (X). Then break down the beliefs into the simple beliefs and work on them individually.

The next thing is to look at the tense. Take a simple belief and adjust the tense to move it into the time past. To remove a belief you leave it in the past.  Example: I couldn’t be successful (belief # 1) because I am/was ( X - belief #2)

Here were example beliefs for the spider phobia:

Spiders are scary / Spiders had been scary
I am phobic of spiders / I was phobic of spiders
Spiders are dangerous / Spiders had been dangerous
Spiders will annihilate me / Spiders would have annihilated me
Spiders are harmful / Spiders would have harmed me

Paul had offered this instruction (paraphrased):

“To a large extent, no belief can ever be an objective truth. A belief we hold is, however, OUR truth. We live based on that. So, if someone believes "spiders are scary"...this will produce certain feelings and behaviors. The thing is, spiders are not inherently scary, so you can absolutely blast that belief away (as you seem to have done)…

With regard to a belief like "I am/was phobic of spiders", I suspect that this would have some impact. However, to a large degree, you would be arguing with your emotional experience. You felt fear and are effectively trying to tell yourself you didn't. In my experience, there are more effective strategies that cut right to the core.” (Paul)


This brings us to the main question about false beliefs and subjective truths. It seems the goal is to identify the inaccurate belief and to realize that it is NOT true and conclude it is a false belief. The false beliefs can be cleared. In the phrasing however it seems there can be a false belief that is indeed subjectively true.

False Belief with Subjective Truth
These first two examples are objectively false but subjectively true for me:

“Spiders are scary.” Is this true? No. To everyone spiders are not inherently scary. This is a false belief.
Now the next part is tricky, and this is where I ran into some difficulty.
“Spiders had been scary.” Is this true?  Yes. For me, spiders had been scary.  So although ‘Spiders are scary is so clearly a false belief, “Spiders had been scary” had subjective truth for me. In this case, the shift in tense actually takes it from a false belief to a subjective truth. Paul astutely mentions I would be arguing with my own emotional experience and truth.

“I am/was phobic of spiders.” Is this true? Yes. I was phobic. Again challenging to eliminate because it was true.  I was phobic. And really not necessary because it is not the core belief, it only defines my (Y) response phobia to (X) Spiders. 

False Belief Only

“Spiders are/had been dangerous.” False. I was afraid of tarantulas.  (Which much to my surprise in most cases only cause a bee sting.) They had felt dangerous. But they were not dangerous. This is far more precise. Even though they felt dangerous, they never were. False belief.

“Spiders will annihilate me / Spiders would have annihilated me” False and false.
“Spiders are harmful / Spiders would have harmed me” False and false. 

Once I identified the negative belief as a cognitive distortion free of any subjective truth it seems ready to be cleared. I could feel it in my body, this specific belief statement was false.

Searching the Belief Blaster forum there were some threads that raise similar questions not covered in the tutorial. 

In summary, my question is this: When using the Belief Blasters how do you identify a false belief from a subjective truth? Is it best to use a belief statement that is false which does not contain subjective truth? Are there other thoughts and considerations?

Thank you!

patrickm

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Re: Subjective truth
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2018, 08:40:41 AM »
Good question Jesse. Awaiting reply with interest.

Paul

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Re: Subjective truth
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2018, 09:00:16 AM »
Hi Jesse,

Thanks for your post. Great questions too and lots to consider.

I personally think it is useful to think of beliefs in terms of absolute truth. Most of the core and emotional causal beliefs we hold or have held tend to be quite simplistic and "absolute."

For example, "people can't be trusted", "speaking in public is scary", "spiders are dangerous" or "I am not capable."

They preclude other possibilities and limit our perspectives.

The aforementioned beliefs, while designed to keep us safe, would have a significant impact on our expectations and behaviours.

Since most of the core beliefs are held subconsciously (and you might need to do some prodding to find them), it is very common to hold beliefs over which you intellectually disagree.

I would contend, however, that all beliefs are our subjective truth and help shape our reality.

If someone holds a belief like "people can't be trusted", they didn't just consciously decide that some day. They were either indoctrinated by friends and family, repeatedly told things like "people can't be trusted" and/or were hurt by people - friends, lovers, strangers, family or co-workers.

When you hold a subjective truth/belief, it is literally like you can see it in the world and you tend to filter out other possibilities. It just feels very true.

I think some of the beliefs you cited feel real for you when you put them into the past tense. I totally understand why "spiders had been scary" seems to sum up your emotional experience. In fact, it probably helped cause it.

Imagine someone had the belief "spiders had been cool", do you think they would feel fear when they saw a spider?

Different experiences will lead to those beliefs being formed but, once held, they create different experiences.

A good way to consciously assess this is to look at the belief you formed and then look at other possibilities. So, let's look at one specific example you cited.

Belief: "Spiders had been scary"

Other possibilities:

- "Maybe those spiders just looked scary, but weren't actually really scary"

- "Just because you felt fear doesn't mean they were actually scary"

- "Maybe those spiders only seemed scary, because you had certain fears and misconceptions about them and you were guided by your reactions."

- "Maybe some of the spiders you saw were just designed to LOOK more scary, as they were in horror movies. It didn't actually mean they were scary or even real"

- "Maybe those spiders were scary, but it doesn't mean all spiders would be scary"

You could go on and on. This is just to illustrate some other possibilities.

So, a belief like "spiders had been scary" is objectively untrue, as not everyone believes that or feels afraid around them. "I was scared of spiders" or "spiders had been scary for me", however, would be objectively true, as they encapsulate how you felt. They are descriptive, rather than causal.

If the wording does not resonate with you, due to the emotionality of the word "scary", you can change it to something that sits better with you...or just re-word the whole sentence. However, that is probably not even necessary.

You are only pushing the unwanted belief into the past, as that is part of the mechanics employed in Belief Blasters. Trying hard to believe the unwanted belief is the other important component.

All beliefs serve or have served us in some way, but it is worth getting rid of the ones that create unpleasant experiences, emotions and conflicts, I would say. It is just a case of identifying them.

So, to that end, you might wish to look at what a certain belief (or set of beliefs) has brought to your life and whether it has outlived its usefulness.

You don't HAVE to analyse whether a belief was subjectively true, per se, as it will have been anyway. It is just about getting to the beliefs that contributed to the emotional and behavioural experience.

I hope that helps, Jesse. If I have missed anything, please let me know.

Best Regards,

Paul  :)



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jesse

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Re: Subjective truth
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2018, 12:50:11 AM »
Hi Paul,

Thank you for such a thoughtful and comprehensive response. I will write soon.

Cheers,
Jesse  :)

jesse

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Re: Subjective truth
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2018, 12:02:47 PM »
So, a belief like "spiders had been scary" is objectively untrue, as not everyone believes that or feels afraid around them. "I was scared of spiders" or "spiders had been scary for me", however, would be objectively true, as they encapsulate how you felt. They are descriptive, rather than causal.

Hi Paul,

Could you clarify this:  “spiders had been scary for me", however, would be objectively true...”  Did you mean subjectively true? Thanks. :)

jesse

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Re: Subjective truth
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2018, 04:14:28 PM »
Hi Paul,

Thank you again for such a comprehensive response. You make many excellent points.

Thinking of beliefs in terms of absolute truth is very insightful. It makes sense that beliefs are just a subjective truth which shapes our reality. I completely agree and in my question avoided using objective truth for this reason.

In these terms are you suggesting it may be more useful to find the causal belief rather than descriptive belief? Here are some things you said that I found very useful:

If it is descriptive you “…would be arguing with your emotional experience. You felt fear and are effectively trying to tell yourself you didn’t.” ... “So, a belief like "spiders had been scary" is objectively untrue, as not everyone believes that or feels afraid around them. "I was scared of spiders" or "spiders had been scary for me", however, would be objectively (did you mean subjectively?) true, as they encapsulate how you felt. They are descriptive, rather than causal.” - Paul

With this understanding could you clarify these examples below using (X = Spiders)?
Using (X) might be easier for others reading to insert a different issue.

Descriptive
(X / Spiders) are scary / (X) had been scary [for me]
(X) are scary / (X) had been scary [but not for everyone]

Causal
(X) will harm me / (X) had been harmful
(X) will harm me / (X) would have harmed me

(X) will harm me is a causal belief that triggers a reaction which is the descriptive belief of (X) is/are scary. This seems to get more specific to the root of the limiting belief. If there is no harm it is no longer scary.

In some ways if this two are combined they become a complex belief:  X is scary because X is harmful. If you eliminate one you eliminate the other.

It seems you have placed an emphasis on causal beliefs. Please let me know if this was indeed a conclusion you were making.  I am seeking to understand a reasoning and method that gets to the beliefs that have contributed to the emotional and behavioral experience.

Thank you again for your continued advice, :)

Jesse

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Re: Subjective truth
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2018, 04:34:48 AM »
Hi Jesse,

Thanks for your message.

I appreciate the way you have considered this.

Hunting out and eliminating the core and causal beliefs will generally knock out the emotionally descriptive beliefs.

So, by getting rid of "spiders are dangerous", "spiders will harm me" etc, it will generally eliminate the experience of being afraid of spiders. Also, the CTs will neutralise the conditioned responses.

"I was scared of spiders" is objectively true for you, as you felt fear and behaved in accordance with that fear. I am sure that people you know and trust would have recognised your fear. However, that is just my belief that it was objectively true.  :D

It can get a little philosophical, so I will try to keep it on-point.

Some modalities maintain there is NO objective truth at all.  This is a fair point. Other modalities claim "it might be that you weren't scared. Maybe you were excited." There are physiological similarities, of course. What I mean is that, as much as it could be claimed that "scared" exists, that was your experience (based on beliefs).

The label itself is not too important here, in my experience. Whenever you find the beliefs that trigger the behaviours and thoughts, you can easily blast them away.

Before doing that, you can consider what benefits holding the beliefs can provide and, indeed, whether the pros outweigh the cons.

I have identified beliefs in myself that I see as beneficial, but may decide to remove at some point in the future.

I do think that eliminating the causal beliefs produces the quickest and most profound shifts. That has been my experience.

Finding what you would need to believe to act in a certain way gets to the core of the issue. It is rarely just one belief and the beliefs are formed based on what we heard, read, were told and experienced, of course.

To hunt out the causal beliefs, you can ask:

"What would I have to believe about X to do Y and feel Z when it/they are around/happening?"

That is one way to do it. You can also disconnect from it and describe your behaviour and thoughts, as though it were a third person (e.g. "what would that person likely believe to...?")

I hope that clarifies this for you, Jesse. Please feel free to keep the thread updated.

Best Regards,

Paul

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Please contact me anytime if you want any assistance in utilising PSTEC to help you live a life of tremendous freedom & possibility.

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jesse

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Re: Subjective truth
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2018, 12:26:00 AM »
Hi Paul,

Thank you very much for the clarification.

It is good to know now that the core and causal beliefs can knock out the descriptive beliefs. I will keep you posted.

Thank you again for your continued advice and encouragement. 

Jesse :)

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Re: Subjective truth
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2018, 05:56:01 PM »

To hunt out the causal beliefs, you can ask:

"What would I have to believe about X to do Y and feel Z when it/they are around/happening?"


I find this post intriguing so a good bit of information here. One thing I wouldn't mind getting more of an idea on is how to hunt the "Causal" beliefs. Could you give a few examples on that method I quoted above please Paul?

Also how do you know which one is causal?

Because if I thought "Spiders are harmful" that would in turn lead me to believe that "Spiders are dangerous"

Also

If I thought "Spiders are dangerous" that would in turn lead me to believe "Spider are harmful"

Which one would be the cause or core belief? they both feed into each other, no?

Thanks guys

jesse

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Re: Subjective truth
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2018, 02:02:03 AM »
Hi,

Really good question. Thanks for joining in.  I would be interested to hear from Paul.

Here is my understanding and experience at the moment. The examples 'spiders are harmful' and 'spiders are dangerous'  seem to both be causal beliefs. These are both synonyms for unsafe. If someone concludes 'I am afraid' becomes a descriptive belief that has been triggered by the causal belief.

To me, it seems what Paul has been suggesting is that reactions, responses and personal emotional experiences are often a good indicator for something forming a descriptive belief. If one then asks themselves why do I or did I feel this way? This can lead to the causal belief which if cleared in turn clears the descriptive belief.

Thanks again for asking this question. I am looking forward to Paul's response.

 :)


Brian

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Re: Subjective truth
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2018, 09:35:38 AM »
I often found I intellectualized too much. So instead I began to simply think in terms of "following instructions" and just figure out "what do I want my new instruction to be" as the sub just follows instructions.
.
Try loading these pqt beliefs...


I thought spiders were really dangerous but I was completely wrong now
Spiders are absolutely safe now I'm completely relaxed around spiders now
Spiders are completely harmless now they're absolutely unimportant now
I feel really calm thinking about spiders now I'm completely ok now
Talking about spiders makes me laugh now I think they're funny

« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 02:59:23 PM by Brian »
If you think it, feel it or say it...PSTEC it!
Book a session: https://goo.gl/2VxCUa
Tools I use: Clicktracks (Basic, EEF, 2015) Accelerators, Positive, Positive Extra, Negative, Belief Blasters, Cascade Release, No More Anxiety, No More Anger, Anger Loop, PTSD Loop, Stop Smoking, Think & Grow Rich

Paul

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Re: Subjective truth
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2018, 05:39:16 PM »

To hunt out the causal beliefs, you can ask:

"What would I have to believe about X to do Y and feel Z when it/they are around/happening?"


I find this post intriguing so a good bit of information here. One thing I wouldn't mind getting more of an idea on is how to hunt the "Causal" beliefs. Could you give a few examples on that method I quoted above please Paul?

Also how do you know which one is causal?

Because if I thought "Spiders are harmful" that would in turn lead me to believe that "Spiders are dangerous"

Also

If I thought "Spiders are dangerous" that would in turn lead me to believe "Spider are harmful"

Which one would be the cause or core belief? they both feed into each other, no?

Thanks guys

Hi Clearingman,

Thank you.

Jesse is spot on there.

"Spiders are harmful" and "spiders are dangerous" are both causal really. They are on the same plane.

It is not that there would be one causal belief, per se, but that hunting the causal and core beliefs tends to produce the best results in changework.

Another example that is quite pertinent here is the fear of public speaking.

"Public speaking is scary" is one of many beliefs that would contribute to public speaking fear.

"I feel really uncomfortable when I speak in public" might look like a belief in terms of its structure, but is actually a description of the pattern.

Further to what Jesse has written, you can notice the feeling to see if it is propped up by a belief.

Feel the feeling and ask:

- "What would I have to believe about (this/that/right now) to feel (emotion) or do (behaviour)?"

There may be more than one belief causing the emotion to show up. Alternatively, it may be a conditioned response that can be Click Tracked.

In a practical sense, "every time someone looks at me, I look away (behaviour). What would I have to believe about myself, that person, being looked at to do the behaviour?"

See what comes to mind.

I will give some real client examples here.

Some beliefs might be "I am not safe", "I am out of my element", "That person is judging me harshly", "It is bad to be looked at", "I am ugly", "It is dangerous to make eye contact with strangers."

The more you use this type of method, the more natural it gets.

Hope that helps,

Paul  :)
Paul McCabe - PSTEC Advanced Practitioner
http://www.lifestyleforchange.com

Please contact me anytime if you want any assistance in utilising PSTEC to help you live a life of tremendous freedom & possibility.

Recreate yourself with PSTEC.

Skype, in-person & phone sessions available.

jesse

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Re: Subjective truth
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2018, 06:39:50 PM »
Hi Brian,

Thanks for your reply and advice. I am replying late because for some reason I didn't receive an alert of a new response.

You make a very good point about intellectualizing. Some of which I have done in my post.  :)

When I was doing BB initially something didn't quite feel right as some of my chosen beliefs felt as if contradicted my own experience. This was because they were descriptive beliefs. Once I understood the relationship between causal and descriptive beliefs was I able to progress. This clarification was very useful.

Thank you for the PQT examples. They seem they could be applied to spiders or other issues that people may want to insert. I will look into these when I get to PQT.

Thanks again Brian for your advice.


jesse

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Re: Subjective truth
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2018, 07:19:52 PM »
Hi Paul,

Thanks for your post, I am replying late as I just realized you had posted. :o

Thanks for your advice. Understanding the relationship between causal and descriptive beliefs seems very valuable. Thank you again for making the distinction and clarification.

Other examples are useful in seeing the pattern. Paul gives the example of public speaking-- Public speaking is scary (descriptive) Public speaking is not safe (causal).

In my experience, the way BB is structured finding the causal belief was essential, as it is a root belief from which the descriptive beliefs stem.  If you do BB and tell yourself that you were not scared when you had been, you may be arguing with your own experience.

In my experience, this distinction was not necessarily doing PSTEC negative CT's. This may be because the CT's are dealing with the feelings. Since BB's seem to be working with the negative thoughts and cognitive distortions, getting to the root of the causal belief was very helpful.


Thanks again.  :)










 



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